Talk:Anthony Quinn

Original name

what about the story that his surname was Quintanilla?

I heard it was Quiñones or Quiñónez.--Rockero 20:08, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Quinn's grandfather was Irish and his father was half Irish and his name was indeed Quinn. No need to start an urban legend - just look it up in Quinn's autobiography.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.63.68.177 (talk • contribs).

I too had long thought that "Anthony Quinn" was a nom de Hollywood. But Quinn's memoir, The Original Sin, is rightly decisive in this matter.202.36.179.65 21:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Acting: no mention of "Barabbas (1962)"

Kind of surprised there's no mention of the film "Barabbas(1962)" Millions of people got Quinn's image burned into the memory as the face of the man who was spared cruxifiction by the Jerusalem mob who chose to spare him versus Jesus, according to the Bible. I'd think that the film is notable, irrespective of the movie's box office performance, or reviews of Quinn's performance. It is widely screened on TV every year during the Easter season, and that must make it one of his most watched films, not only in the United States, but in all predominently Christian countries. Scupper 13:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Why I rewrote much of this entry

I often consult Wikipedia on show business matters. Nearly always, the entries all well-written, and I would guess that that is the case because they are written by professional publicists. This entry is a curious exception; while I cannot dispute the facts, the prose was in need of a lot of polish, which I proceeded to supply. I revere Quinn as a Hollywood giant and as a manly man, but have not seen all that many of his films (e.g., I have never seen Viva Zapata). My favorite Quinn role is the title role in The Magus. I did not know that Quinn was a rogue in the bedroom until I read this entry. I suppose the idea of bearing Anthony Quinn's child must have thrilled more than one pretty woman.202.36.179.65 21:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Tonight show

In an earlier appearance on The Tonight Show hosted by Johnny Carson, Quinn remarked that people were coming up to him and saying, "ZORBA", carrying on in Greek in a vain attempt at conversation. I think he was being modest because he said, "I don't speak a word of Greek. I'm Mexican." I recently saw him in a Fellini film, speaking what sounded, (to me), like perfect Italian. Granted, competency in Spanish, English and Italian do not a Greek speaker make.--W8IMP 03:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Guns for San Sebastian

Missing from movie titles. 72.47.9.64 (talk · contribs) - 06:37, 3 July 2007

The Shoes of a Fisherman

Missing from movie credits - 12.178.74.70 (talk · contribs) - 03:58, 5 July 2007

Opening paragraph rewrite - 5/23/08

Quinn was both an actor and "movie star" of considerably greater note than the former lead indicated. The article as a whole does a decent and well-intended job of skimming through Quinn's career but misses several essential points - that he was a massive presence in the films he made, that he was a major box office draw, and that most of his films prior to 1970 were A level major studio releases that were widely discussed and frequently very popular.

The shortcomings of this article are reflective of a broad problem in Wiki articles on popular culture: since computer/internet use in the U.S. still skews rather younger than older, articles tend do give undue weight to living subjects and relatively recent phenomena. The median age in the U.S. is now 36.5 years or so, which would put half the country born in 1971 or after. That could account for why cinema lightweights like James van der Beek and Jennifer Aniston among many others get as much cyber ink as a figure of far greater significance as Quinn was and is. (A related outrage - one of hundreds - would be to compare space given to Gary Cooper to Tom Cruise - other heavyweight vs. flyweight examples abound.)

The rewrite of the lead is a first step. The rest of the article provides, as noted above, an acceptable framework on which to build an article more worthy of its subject. Sensei48 (talk) 05:30, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

"...he was a massive presence in the films he made..." POV?

"...he was a major box office draw..." CITE?

Tom Cruise's box office receipts flyweight??? Compare his receipts as a percentage against production cost of the film, and as a percentage of that years gross, versus Cooper.

The bottom line what is "hip" at the moment will get the most "ink" (then) / "webspace" (now). It is called Pop Culture. IP4240207xx (talk) 06:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

...he was a massive presence in the films he made.

Supportable from critics, but of course virtually any statement about a film can be.

''Tom Cruise's box office receipts flyweight??? Compare his receipts as a percentage against production cost of the film, and as a percentage of that years gross, versus Cooper.

The clear sense of my rewrite and comments are about the artistry of the actor, not about the receipts s/he generates. Surely you are being disingenuous on this point. I know of neither any major serious critic nor any reputable film historian who takes Cruise seriously as anything other than a pretty boy movie star; Cooper, Gable, Tracy, Fonda, Stewart and a few others are iconic figures in American film acting - need a citation?

The bottom line what is "hip" at the moment will get the most "ink" (then) / "webspace" (now). It is called Pop Culture.

My point exactly. And there is nothing more fundamentally antithetical to the nature of an encyclopedia than that. There are plenty of editors out there in hosts of articles who are striving to make Wikipedia something more than a message board for pop culture - or pop perception. Sensei48 (talk) 09:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

If it is from a credible source, that is what is needed, doesn't matter if you or I agree with it, at least it takes it out of Wikipedia:POV & Wikipedia:OR. That is the point. It doesn't matter what you or I think. No Original Research; No Point of View. We are not writers here, we are the editors with the red pencil gathering sources. Cruise v. Cooper: You don't say what criteria in your original sentence, you just say: "(A related outrage - one of hundreds - would be to compare space given to Gary Cooper to Tom Cruise - other heavyweight vs. flyweight examples abound.)" So, I was trying to make a point, On What Basis? You have no idea about how I feel about Cooper or Cruise, and if you take WIKI Policy to heart, you never will. I am just the guy with the red pencil trying to get you to be a better contributor. But, if you are really smart, and check the edit history's, you will find that I have spent a lot more time with Quinn and Cooper than with Pitt and Cruise, and that should just be about all you need to know about me and what I think. But, lets just dot the "T's" and cross the "I's" shall we. IP4240207xx (talk) 10:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello again IP4 - I neglected to add this page we've been discussing to my watchlist and hence missed your comments of 24 May until now. The first and really only significant response I would make is that I wouldn't at this point disagree with your revision of my sentence in the lede - until and unless I gather what you or another editor would find to be acceptable sourcing. Even as revised, it still works better than what I replaced in terms of establishing WP:Note.

Please note that I have restricted my other comments and observations to which you take exception to Talk pages; they are observations inviting just such response as you made and to which I have counter-responded. Cruise vs. Quinn is not a real issue, and I didn't intend it to be anything more than a Talk page note - not a significant point in an article requiring proper sourcing.

The functionality of working on Wiki articles is a somewhat different point, however. As I'm sure you're well aware (note that I am not questioning "if you are really smart" - please add a smiley here), even creditable objective sourcing can be found for a broad range of apparently POV statements regarding art and culture. Richard Schickel might well love a film or actor that Kenneth Turan hates, yet the stature as critics of both would make either an acceptable source.

The consequence of this is that on Wiki the function of editing transcends that of red penciling, which is actually more the province of copy editing. A better example of editing might be found in what Ezra Pound did with T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land - in suggesting edits that amounted to removing about half of the original text, Pound helped Eliot create what amounts to a different (and in general critical consideration, a better) poem, leading Eliot to dedicate the poem to Pound, referring to him as "il miglior fabbro" - "the better maker" or "the better craftsman." The fact that Wiki has a qualitative rating scale for articles and that administrators often demand extreme revisions to existing articles before they are promoted to a higher level on that scale puts the act of editing here on a different footing than one of merely of finding sources for points already expressed.

And if you understand that - and look across the broad range of my edits on a host of other subjects, characterized by careful sourcing and civility in language and attitude - then you will be a better contributor. Sensei48 (talk) 19:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Greek confusion

Due to his high-profile Greek-character roles, not just Zorba but also Aristotle Onassis and Guns of Navarone, I am certain I have seen printed articles and definitely online articles, erroneously referring to Anthony Quinn as being, himself, Greek. Of course when I want to add the information, I can't find it. So I'm mentioning it here in case anyone can provide sourcing so it can be added to the article that despite being Mexican, Quinn is often mistaken for Greek because of these roles. He's in good company: Israeli-born Chaim Topol is often thought of as a Russian actor because of Fiddler on the Roof. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 18:37, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity / Charismatic ?

I am puzzled why this article about a Hollywood movie actor would interest WikiProject Christianity / Charismatic. Late in life he joined an evangelical Christian church, but so what? HairyWombat 01:47, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Later. I have removed WikiProject Christianity / Charismatic. HairyWombat 13:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Awards

I have moved the awards into a single sub-section; for some reason they were separated. The two tables still need to be combined. I don't know why they were ever separate, so hesitate to do this myself. Perhaps somebody who knows better the history of this page should do this. HairyWombat 14:14, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Later. I have removed one of the two tables. HairyWombat 13:33, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Manner of article - major rewrtie

Quinn is famous as an actor. I think this article was started long before the MOS for these types of article was created. Nowadays they discusses the career rather than just make a narrative, with the acting fitted in along the way.

This article should start with his career, then add a personal life to fill in the rest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.123.245 (talk) 11:11, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't find a MOS that suggested a structure for this article. I did find Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) which seems relevant, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography#Structure which is unhelpful as it doesn't actually mention Structure at all. (Whatever happened to Truth in Advertising?) I would encourage you to go ahead with this rewrite, but don't expect any help. This article has not been "adopted" by anyone, so you will be on your own. Best of luck. HairyWombat 14:10, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Location of Death

The location of death in the info box on top right does not match what's described under title Death in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.60.28.223 (talk) 20:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I fixed it. --V111P (talk) 22:03, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

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Birth name needs clarification

The article has at least two conflicting versions of his birth name -- one in the body of the text (Antonio Reyes), another in the Box (Antonio Rodolfo Quinn Oaxaca). Can someone with access to good sources sort out this confusion? Nandt1 (talk) 16:17, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I tracked the insertion of the supposed birth name Antonio Reyes to an anonymous editor with no record on WP. It is inconsistent with other entries in the same article, and the cited sources that I also looked up, and also unconnected to his parents' names, so I felt these were good reasons to revert. Nandt1 (talk) 20:52, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Birth name: Antonio Rodolfo or Anthony Rudolph?

Having disposed of Sr. Reyes (above), I see that we still have an issue over his first name at birth. Our article says Antonio, but a couple of sources say Anthony. Would someone like to look further into this aspect? Nandt1 (talk) 21:01, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

So, I found obituaries from the New York Times and from the British papers The Guardian and The Independent, all three of which I would consider serious sources as newspapers go. All give the birth name as Anthony Rudolph [Quinn Oaxaca] rather than Antonio Rodolfo as in our article (his father being half Irish and half Mexican -- and himself apparently going by either Francisco or Frank -- either of the spellings could be plausible a priori). Anyone else have anything to offer on this? Nandt1 (talk) 14:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Was he really Mexican American?

I don't see any reference that shows Anthony Quinn obtained U.S. citizenship. If not, he should technically be referred to as a Mexican actor, not a Mexican American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.214.4 (talk) 05:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Children

His autobiography mentions an additional unnamed French son. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.136.164.83 (talk) 16:19, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

More FLW influence?

When I was an architecture student, a batch of us went to Taliesin. On our tour, one of the tales we were told was that Quinn was born tongue-tied. Wright was supposedly the one who urged Quinn to get a surgical repair of the condition. It would improve client presentations for him if he stayed in architecture and it paved the way for his acting career. Is there any truth to this tale? Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 00:15, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Mafia section should go

There is a small but significant section on Quinn's alleged interest in the Mafia. The longer first paragraph has no citation, the second short paragraph has one citation that doesn't exist and a second from an interview of others, conducted by a game show host, given after Quinn's death. This requires readers to find the interview and go through it, looking for such a dubious claim. The section says Quinn had a "personal relationship" with organized crime figures. It is all vague and unproven. Perhaps Quinn merely wanted to play an Italian character and was doing research. It would be like saying Quinn was the Pope because he played one in a movie (which he did, of course). The Mafia section should be completely erased for lack of evidence.Purplethree (talk) 16:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Disagree with such a drastic solution. But I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say. Quis separabit? 02:48, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Cancer

Quinn actually died of pneumonia and throat cancer. (217.42.104.101 (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC))

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Anthony Quinn/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Looks good, except as usual there are no references. Yksin 05:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 01:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 07:59, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Nationality in lead

All his notable activities were in the US, he's done nothing notable in Mexico and article states he wasn't even accepted in Mexico due to his name. MOS:CONTEXTBIO says "neither previous nationalities nor the country of birth should be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability" so Mexico shouldn't be in the intro sentence or lead as not relevant to his notability. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I'd say his Mexican background is quite relevant. See last sentence of second paragraph: he remains a seminal figure of Latin-American representation in the media of the United States. Also, it seems his Mexican nationality has always been mentioned in the lede until quite recently. Unless there is consensus to the contrary, we should re-add it. Vpab15 (talk) 07:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

The phrase you quoted is in the lead already and is sufficient lead mention of the impact his ancestry had on his notability. Latin-American is a cultural attribute and that description covers much more than just being from Mexico. MOS:CONTEXTBIO gives the justification for Mexico/Mexican not being in the lead as specifically being from Mexico was not a contribution to his notability. He left Mexico as a child, it has no more relevance for him than any other person with Mexican ancestry. Having it in the lead, and more specifically in the intro sentence, in the past went against the MOS guidance. Generally we need a local consensus decision to deliberately go against the MOS, not one to conform to it. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:57, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion is whether his Mexican background is relevant per MOS or not. In case of no consensus, we should go back to the status quo and re-add it. Vpab15 (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

It is an accident of birth, no more. Pretty major stretch to say it is relevant to his notability and there is nothing in the article that supports relevance so MOS says leave it out. Latin-American is mentioned in the lead and covers what is important. Article said Mexican-American for most of the article history. For some periods article said Mexican and American, and Mexican born American. Article has said American actor since I changed it in April from Mexican-American. Mexican-American is an ethnicity tag, not an nationality. Mexican born could be justified only if relevant to notability. Mexican and American actor is incorrect as he never was a notable Mexican actor - that construction is only used for people with notable activities in both countries. Geraldo Perez (talk) 19:05, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

The lead now mentions he is Mexican-American. I don't mind changing it to any of the alternative formulas (eg. Mexican born), as long as his Mexican background is mentioned. Vpab15 (talk) 09:25, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with Mexican-American in the intro sentence as that is purely an ethnicity tag like African-American, Jewish-American and others. I reverted your changes to the status-quo of the article before your changes and expected to follow WP:BRD process. You have not made a case to go against the manual of style by showing in any way why his Mexican ancestry has any bearing on his notability. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:44, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

WP:CONTEXTBIO specifically states Per the above guidance, we do not add ethnicity ("Jewish-American") or country of birth ("Russian-born American"). These details can be introduced in the second sentence if they are of defining importance.) Schazjmd (talk) 15:36, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

That is just an example for Isaac Asimov. It doesn't mean the same applies to every single person. Vpab15 (talk) 15:41, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Asimov was used as the example for the general rule that was being applied. The statement does not apply to only Asimov, but to all people with similar backgrounds such as Quinn. Quinn's physical appearance seems relevant to his notability, though, and that is related to his Mexican/Irish/Cherokee ancestry. Put something in the second sentence as an attempt at compromise. Cherokee is sourced but not mentioned in article. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:46, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

@Vpab15, each example is chosen to illustrate a specific case; Asimov was used to illustrate someone who emigrated as a child and continued to identify as a citizen of their adopted country. Doesn't that apply to Quinn? Schazjmd (talk) 15:49, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

someone who emigrated as a child and continued to identify as a citizen of their adopted country, which doesn't necessarily apply to this article. Vpab15 (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand. Are there sources supporting that Quinn did not identify himself as an American? Schazjmd (talk) 16:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there are ([1]): With a name like Quinn, I wasn’t totally accepted by the Mexican community in those days, and as a Mexican I wasn’t accepted as an American. So as a kid I just decided, well, ‘A plague on both your houses. I’ll just become a world citizen.’ So that’s what I did. Acting is my nationality. Vpab15 (talk) 16:40, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think his feelings about not being accepted in either community negate the MOS guidance for the first sentence. Schazjmd (talk) 22:19, 7 July 2023 (UTC)