Talk:Total Recall (1990 film)

Soundtrack article

There should be an article about Jerry Goldsmith's score, as I've seen that one rather short album was released (Arnold's face is blueish) and later a special edition (Arnold's face is now reddish) of I think one hour long, or perhaps two. Importance? Goldsmith "Total Recall" one of his greatest scores, and his personal favorite. This would then make place for the following:

Total Recall - Most Expensive Film

Acoording to the page on Arnold Schwarzenegger, Total Recall, at that time, was the most expensive film in the world. But it doesn't say anything about that here, is it true or not? And if it is, I think it should be on this page!

No way. Even if it was, it was soon overshadowed by Hook, then Waterworld and subsequently, Titanic. Pictureuploader

Themes section

I edited some of the stuff in the Themes section. Besides the information relating to how Total Recall relates to other sci-fi films, the only issue discussed in this section is whether or not Quaid's adventure is real or not. I figured it could have it's own title in bold, and storypoints which indicate both sides of the argument could be listed. The section is not cohesive at the moment, but the main pro/con points are in there now.

Edgemar proposes a pill to Quaid

The wikipedia synopsis of the movie claims that Dr. Edgemar only explains the situation to Quaid (Quaid is supposedly asleep, installed in Rekall's device with fabricated memories implanted in his brain). In reality he does explain the situation, but orders abruptly Quaid to take a red pill he handed out to him, claiming it would make him fall asleep in his "dream" and that he would safely avoid "the walls of reality crash down on him" and "permanent psychosis". He does so being held at gun point by Quaid who doesn't trust him, the moment the pill was presented. For all we know the pill could be poison or anything else (a drug maybe even a sedative), a possibility the movie lets the spectator guess.

In the sequence, Quaid asks what could happen if he refuses said pill. Edgemar replies that it would not have the least detrimental effect in real life for himself (its only a dream) but that Quaid would face permanent psychosis and lobotomy, Edgemar then enumerates further events such as Quaid being considered by people on Mars as "a saviour" of the cause, a "rebel leader" and even having "fantasies of alien civilizations", a prediciton supposed to instill doubt in Quaid and even scare him, as Edgemar claims that past these fictive events the damage would be too great and would be have Quaid inevitably lobotomozed "in the real world". Edgemar asks calmcly for Quaid to place the pill in his mouth and to swallow, the latter procedes to do do so but doesn't swallow , Edgemar now adopts a harsh condescending tone and reiterates the order to swallow the red pill, Lori plays good cop asking gently Quaid to swallow the pill as well. A long silence follow, Quaid observing Edgemar for a while then noticing he's sweating profusely, takes this as a sign that Edgemar and Lori were conspiring against him: he then shoots Edgemar point blank in the forehead then spits the pill on the now lifeless body.

Does anyone think the choice of taking or not said pill -in the movie- isn't pivotal? It is necessary to understand the movie differs from the original story in many ways.

I proposed to replace the following synopsis excerpt:

"In his hotel room, Quaid is confronted by Lori and Dr. Edgemar from Rekall, who explains that Quaid is still at Rekall on Earth, trapped in his fantasy memory and on the verge of permanent brain damage " (37 words)

by this revised excerpt:

"In his hotel room, Quaid confronts Lori and Dr. Edgemar from Rekall who ask him to take a red pill to safely escape Rekall's artificial martian adventure memory or face permanent brain damage in the real world" (37 words, same as before, so it doesn't alter the total synopsis word count, which consist on being kept below 700 words).

Additionally a comparison with other movies directly inspired by this sequence should be present in the wikipedia article but in a separate section. 2a01:e0a:208:4130:103d:1801:aa4b:2686 (talk) 00:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I think the pill could be mentioned if it can be worked in without removing the more important point that Edgemar tries to convince Quaid that he is still at Rekall on Earth, trapped in a fantasy. If forced to choose between these two points, the latter is far more significant than the fact that a pill is involved. It's one of the most important points in the film, and is the basis for the ambiguity that some critics have noted, the possibility that most of the movie is Quaid's delusion. The new wording obscures this point in the words "escape his artificial martian adventure memory"; the original is clearer by saying explicitly "Quaid is still at Rekall on Earth, trapped in his fantasy memory". CodeTalker (talk) 01:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Per CodeTalker, the important part of the scene is the introduction that everything so far has been his memory implant and that Quaid is still on Earth, and then he kills Edgemar. He could've given Quaid a rubber duck to place gently on his head, it wouldn't otherwise change the scene. Typing out the scene as you've done here doesn't change it. If you can find sufficient sources of thematic relevance of the pill, it's something that could be discussed in the thematic analysis section, but it isn't important to overall understanding of the plot. EDIT: Add into that, that Quaid doesn't confront anyone so it's not even an accurate retelling of the scene. It doesn't even really explain that Quaid is trapped, it just says "safely escape" but there's no establishing why he would need to do so. Even the mention of brain damage I kept, I feel, is not that important, compared to establishing that he isn't on Mars, he's potentially on Earth, and he is trapped in his fantasy. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 08:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

"Quaid confronts Lori and Dr.Edgemar" which you criticize now, is verbatim from the original (amateurish) synopsis you defended, in my shorter rewrite I only kept it to please the people such as you who reverted any and all edits to the former version of the wikipedia synopsis; on the other hand, the encounter in the hotel room does turn into a confrontation as Quaid doesn't believe what Edgemar is telling him and even holds him at gunpoint, asking in an amusing tone what would occur if eventually he shot him. You claim whether it's "a rubber duck on his head" or a pill doesn't have any importance, but in the movie it is crucial, for all we know Quaid could think the pill is a sedative or a poison to neutralize him (if one considers the martian adventure is real and that he escaped from Rekall's facility in the first place), but he could also just want to pursue the dream/adventure (if one believe he's just sinking into madness still seated on Rekall's apparatus), it's up to the viewer to decide, the director left the possibilities open -entirely-. Edgemar enumerating the rest of the adventure as a prediciton meant to frighten Quaid and force him to swallow the pill (he pretended to take it but poorly hid he was not swallowing it) doesn't "prove" he's right, it could simply be that Quaid & Cohaagen had an elaborate plan to infiltrate the resistance on Mars and so if the scheme doesn't go as planned Quaid would eventually remain in said rebellious movement. Edgemar adopts now a harsh tone to force Quaid to swallow said pill, Lori encourages him as wellto do so, why would they insist both so much since he already placed the pill in his mouth, after all if it's a Rekall safety measure -supposedly in one of their artificial dreams- Quaid has proceeded to take the pill whether he swallowed it or not, it was claimed it only "symobolized his choice" to awaken and end the dream yet they order him to sallow the pill. It's clear the movie director wants the viewer to side with Quaid and his disbelief, and to strongly consider the possibility the pill is a way for to Rekall try to eventually suppress him by any means. The movie introduces the choice of a pill yet you decided that Edgemar is right just because several movie critics decided this as well (no one knows if he's right or not, the movie diverges from the original story, remember). You claim the brain damage isn't important, it's crucial to the scenario : it is known people had been lobotomized before , after using Rekall's artificial memory "services", so Edgemar uses this fact to threaten and convince Quaid despite being held at gunpoint. Having the "walls of reality crashing down" & "permanent psychosis" due to ongoing brain damage as mentioned by Edgemar, is a way the script has to excite the viewer as to what delirious adventures await the viewer if Quaid doesn't take said pill, as if what occured until now was just to get a taste. Not just a fantasy gone astray, one due to ...a brain now sick beyond healing...or similar to one conceived by such a mind yet fully real (which again depends on the viewer's point of view). Think of it. Neither you nor DonIago nor Logan Betty are moderators / administrators, you cannot hold the article hostage of your own interpretation. 2A01:E0A:208:4130:F063:2EF7:392C:579F (talk) 13:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I am a bit concerned this approach is trying to push the larger idea of the "red pill" used in the current political/culture war, when that term itself is based on The Matrix, and never attributed to this film. It seems happenstance that the pill used here is red, as noted above it could have been any prop or color, it was inconsequential to the story beyond Quaid rejecting it. If there are sources that discuss the importance of the red pill here, we can reconsider, but the suggestion changes seem unnecessary. Masem (t) 13:49, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I'd also say that if there are sources that talk about it then that merits discussion elsewhere in the article as well, quite possibly moreso than in the plot summary. DonIago (talk) 14:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@IP User: "Quaid is confronted by Lori and Dr. Edgemar from Rekall" has been in the plot summary long term, it was never "Quaid confronts Lori and Dr.Edgemar" because that wouldn't make sense because that isn't what happens. I think it says a lot that the red pill isn't mentioned anywhere in the article because it never came up, Verhoeven's discussion of the film relates to the hotel scene and the premise that everything is a dream, so even to him the red pill wasn't important to the scene, per my comments above. Also, to be clear, noone is holding the article hostage, but we do work on what is considered a consensus, and you are the only person pushing the red pill aspect, but the bulk of your reasoning seems to be personal interpretation, and you keep ignoring that the revelation the events may be part of Quaid's fantasy are the most important part, making it difficult to really progress the conversation. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to the IP and not me. :p DonIago (talk) 14:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, back and forth chats are never easy to format properly on Wikipeda. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)