Talk:Soho

Ambiguity due to use of American English

'Gentrification', second paragraph. The last sentence in this paragraph, regarding the survival of houses from a certain period, reads, 'Only No 10 and No 15 from this period survived to the 21st century'. Does the sentence mean ' ... have survived' (i.e. are still there) or ' ... survived', (i.e. may no longer be there, perhaps demolished between 2000 and 2020?). It is the former, having looked carefully at the pictures. In addition, the use of 'to the 21st century' rather than 'into the 21st century' is again ambiguous for roughly the same reason. I propose therefore to correct the English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.59.159 (talk) 13:23, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Am I doing something wrong?

Hello, not sure if this is the right place to ask this?

I have tried to add more up to date info to the Sex section as it appears woefully out of date (last comments related to 2003) but it has been deleted by someone twice... is this okay or if not please help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.209.235 (talk) 11:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I don't mean to create trans-Atlantic tension, but shouldn't this article be moved to "Soho (London)" with "Soho" redirected to "Soho (disambiguation)"? Particularly in light of SoHo (Manhattan), which is a well-known neighborhood across the pond, as well as Soho, Hong Kong. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

SoHo in New York is not an imitation of Soho, London. The name is derived from being the area SOuth of HOuston — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.93.52 (talk) 15:40, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Photomontage for article

Soho Top from left: View of Soho, Gardners' Hut, Soho Square. Middle from left: Comptons, Kingly Court. Bottom from left: Greek Street, Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club.

We hope (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Steven Johnson quote (moved from article pending rephrasing)

Almost every structure that stood on Broad Street in the late summer of 1854 has been replaced by something new – thanks in part to the Luftwaffe, and in part to the creative destruction of booming urban real estate markets. (Even the streets' names have been altered. Broad Street was renamed Broadwick in 1936). The pump, of course, is long gone, though a replica with a small plaque stands several blocks from the original site on Broad Street. A block east of where the pump once stood is a sleek glass office building designed by Richard Rogers with exposed piping painted a bold orange; its glassed-in lobby hosts a sleek, perennially crowded sushi restaurant. St. Luke's Church, demolished in 1936, has been replaced by the sixties development Kemp House, whose fourteen stories house a mixed-use blend of offices, flats, and shops. The entrance to the workhouse on Poland Street is now a quotidian urban parking garage, though the workhouse structure is still intact, and visible from Dufours Place, lingering behind the postwar blandness of Broadwick Street like some grand Victorian fossil. (…) On Broad Street itself, only one business has remained constant over the century and half that separates us from those terrible days in September 1854. You can still buy a pint of beer at the pub on the corner of Cambridge Street, not fifteen steps from the site of the pump that once nearly destroyed the neighbourhood. Only the name of the pub is changed. It is now called The John Snow.

References

Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:58, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Geographic Area

Hello all, I was just wondering if the cited area of 1 sq mile (2.5 sq kilometers) for Soho is accurate? A quick glance at Google maps shows that Soho is closer to a .5 mi x .5 mi square (.75 km x .75 km), which would give it an area closer to that of 1/4 of a sq mile or .6 sq km. Those are very rough calculations, but I think it's safe to say that Soho is nowhere near a square mile in area (just draw a mile-long line in Google Maps to see for yourself). That's assuming American miles and standard kilometers. There doesn't appear to be a citation for where this original calculation originated from.

AlphaCentauri900 (talk) 16:06, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Soho/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Eric Corbett (talk · contribs) 17:00, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.

Detailed comments

Lead

• "The area was first developed from farmland in 1536 ..." When was it second developed?

Fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:16, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• "The upper class had mostly moved away by the mid-19th century ..." No indication that they'd ever moved in.

I've name dropped a few late-17th century aristocrats in to emphasise this. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• I have an uneasy feeling that the lead is a little too short for an article of this length.

Was just thinking the same - have another look. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Much better! Eric Corbett 23:23, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Gentrification

• "It was originally called King Square in honour of Charles II, and a statue of him was based in the centre, including." Is there something missing from the end of that sentence, or is the "including" just an accident?

Ah that's probably my "back to front" copyediting - rather than working from an article top-to-bottom, I work on whichever bits are easiest first. Also, there are too many "including"s in the article so I've knocked out a couple. I blame trying to multi-task, which blokes are crap at. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:19, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Decline

• "A serious outbreak of cholera in 1854 around Soho caused the remaining upper-class families to leave the area." A serious outbreak of cholera sticks out like a sore thumb, given that the epidemic was dealt with in the immediately preceding chapter.

Yes, that shouldn't be there, we've already talked about the incident enough in the preceding section, so I've trimmed that down. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:45, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Recent history

• "The Soho Housing Association was established during this time ..." It's unclear when "this time" actually was.

The source (The London Encyclopedia) didn't say, but I found another one that says it was 1976. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Theatre and film

• "in 2005, Elton John staged a joint bachelor party there with his longtime partner David Furnish in anticipation of their civil partnership, in recognition of the improved status of same-sex couples." I'm unclear what "in anticipation ... in recognition" means. Which was it?

I've cut the second part of the sentence - the recognition of gay rights was more about the Civil Partnership Act 2004 rather than Soho itself. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

• "Soho's key fibre communications network has managed by Sohonet since 1995 ..." Presumably there's a word missing here?

Yup. Fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:53, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

• "... 23 per cent of the workforce in Soho works in the creative industries, making it one of the most creative parts of London." I don't think that follows at all.

I think we can lose the second part of that sentence, it's quite long as it is and simply stating the facts as stated should suffice. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:53, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Restaurants and clubs

• "... and was popular with the Albert, Prince of Wales (where he is alleged to have dined with his mistress, Lillie Langtry) and Oscar Wilde. Lots wrong with this.

I've split this into two sentences, and reworded it - however I've yet to see a source that says "Bertie" actually did dine publicly with Lillie Langrty, only that it was hearsay and rumour; to have the future monarch having a public affair at the height of Victorian Britain would have been utterly shocking. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:06, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

• "It closed in January 2016 pending redevelopment." is it still closed? Sometimes these transient events aren't worth bothering with.

The source in question gave the impression that the close was the last one and it was never reopening; however, I've just discovered it's reopening today, so I've removed the last bit. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:12, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Religion

• "John Betjeman campaigned to restore the church, which was completed in 1990." That reads as if the church was completed in 1990, not the restoration.

A more substantial issue is that the source given does not say that (nor explains how Betjeman was involved with a restoration project six years after he died). I've got another source and reworded all this. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Music

• "generally regarded as the first venue where modern jazz, or bebop, was performed in the UK until it was closed in 1950 following a drugs raid." It didn't stop being the UK's first venue when it closed.

Split the sentences Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

• ""... a Sunday afternoon club organised by the beat poets Pete Brown ..." Pete Brown is only one poet

Fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Streets

• "... and named after Karnaby House, which was built in 1683 lay on the street's eastern side." Should that be "and lay"?

Split sentence and reworded. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

• The information about the Windmill Theatre has already been covered in the Theatre and film section.

Removed as redundant - It was in the article as I found it and since both parts were either unsourced or not particularly well sourced, I wasn't sure which was going to be developed the most at the time. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

@Eric Corbett: Any other issues? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

No more nitpicking from me, I think we're done here now. Eric Corbett 13:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, insightful comments and good copyediting as always - also good to see you getting back into regular GA reviews. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:38, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Infobox size

I've got a problem with the infobox size. It's too big and squashes the following map down to leave a large white space below the "Location" section. Can it be collapsed? Also, there are now two maps in the article, which seems excessive - can we pick one (or a better one as discussed in parallel on Talk:Mayfair and go with that? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:07, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The problems you describe do not occur on my screen; however, on my screen your removal of the infobox causes a "large white space". We can't design pages for any one user. I've restored the status quo ante. And no, infoboxes should not be collapsed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:30, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

If this was work I'd say "share your screen and I'll have a look". ;-) Anyway, if I remove the map from the "Location" section, the white space disappears. Also, do we need the "Neighbouring areas of London" to be where it is, can we shunt it to the bottom? And why can't we collapse infoboxes? Is that a technical reason, or something else? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)