Talk:Zionist Occupation Government conspiracy theory

This article was nominated for deletion on 4 November 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered.

Religion: Interfaith Low‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of Interfaith work group, a work group which is currently considered to be inactive.

Jewish history Low‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Alternative Views Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Alternative views, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion.Alternative ViewsWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative ViewsTemplate:WikiProject Alternative ViewsAlternative Views articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Skepticism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Do not feed the trolls!
This article or its talk page has experienced trolling. The subject may be controversial or otherwise objectionable, but it is important to keep discussion on a high level. Do not get bogged down in endless debates that don't lead anywhere. Know when to deny recognition and refer to WP:PSCI, WP:FALSEBALANCE, WP:WikiVoice, or relevant notice-boards. Legal threats and trolling are never allowed!

Archives

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

This page has archives. Sections older than 45 days may be automatically archived by when more than 3 sections are present.

There aren't any sources that actually prove this is an antisemitic conspiracy theory

The article cites the ADL, itself a powerful pro-Zionist organization. Not exactly an impartial judge. Wouldn't it be better to reference an unbiased study that's thoroughly examined the main claims of ZOG Theory? Why doesn't this Wikipedia article offer any counter-arguments as well? 2600:6C56:4AF0:9050:5F55:BD07:F342:CE4B (talk) 00:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any citations of "Jewish" sources needs to be avoided, given that these are not independent of the subject - one of WP's key rules. However, if this were to be enforced, there would be no article! 182.239.148.125 (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. See WP:BIASED. --Hob Gadling (talk) 11:10, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While the ADL isn't a reliable source, your point fails to consider who the burden of proof lies with, one cannot disprove a conspiracy, only prove it. Thats like saying to the 911 conspiracies "Where are the sources disproving the government did it?". The burden of proof lies with the conspirators to prove their conspiracy, not other people to disprove it. ZOG will remain a conspiracy until there is any credible evidence for it. And there are ample sources for it being antisemitic mainly the people associated with its creation and it's underlying implications. 78.183.98.141 (talk) 10:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

where is the proof that it is antisemetic?

the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

I say I'm black, you say no you are not black. Who should give the proof here? Me obviously because I claimed something without proof, but I can just totally ignore your rebuttal by saying that it's a conspiracy theory. And now you have the burden of proof because "one cannot disprove a conspiracy, only prove it"?!! Mouhibay (talk) 08:21, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WIkipedia does not demand "proof". It demands verifiability. See WP:V. (Also, it is obvious that it is antisemitic.) --Hob Gadling (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ADL aside, there's no shortage of peer-reviewed literature calling ZOG an antisemitic and/or neo-nazi conspiracy theory (e.g. [1], [2]) _signed,Rosguill ^talk 12:53, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Rosguill I reverted the above edit earlier as it is not an edit request and is by a new editor (their 2nd edit in fact). They reverted me but both the edit and the revert were before I gave them an alert. On the other hand, there's the huge notice at the top of this talk page. Their only other edits are at Talk:Zionism but that was a legitimate and good edit request. Doug Weller talk 13:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I saw that and considered reinstating your edit Doug Weller. However, Mouhibay's comment here nominally steers clear of I/P as a topic, so I think this is better addressed by simply providing authoritative sources and putting the issue to bed. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 13:03, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fine with me. Hopefully the editor will read and abide by the alert if they do think of editing anything clearly in the area. Doug Weller talk 13:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will and thank you for reverting Mouhibay (talk) 10:53, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Improper synthesis and incorrect usage of source

The current page makes the completely unsourced claim that the "Zionism" mentioned in this conspiracy theory is not the same as Zionism, as in support for the state of Israel. I read the article which supposedly states this. Here is what it says:

"Conceptualizations of class and state converge in white supremacist discourse in the characterization of the United States government as the "Zionist Occupation Government" (ZOG). White supremacists view the government as a racial state which consistently privileges minority group members over whites (Omi, 1990). While this is certainly an important aspect of the "racialized" nature of the state, in these writings it is not the only way in which the state is seen as a racial entity. As indicated by the ubiquitous reference to the state as "ZOG" ("Zionist" is equated with "Jewish") within these publications, the state is depicted as inherently "Jewish," a racial identity within the discourse. The government, as well as the corporate elite, is supposedly "occupied" and controlled by Jews. This racial view of the state is also inherently gendered in that it is specifically Jewish men who are in the positions of power. This conflated vision of class and racial state is gendered in other ways as well."

The article merely asserts that, to proponents of the conspiracy theory, Zionism is equivalent to being Jewish. It does not state that the "Zionism" of the theory is different than supporting Israel, and does not assert that the anti-Zionism of people who believe in ZOG is a different anti-Zionism than opposing the existence of Israel.

The "Zionism" attacked by proponents of the ZOG theory is indeed support for the state of Israel. Proponents of ZOG believe that the state of Israel intends on destroying the white race and subverting Western countries, and this is adequately sourced by almost all writing on the conspiracy theory.

"If you surf the web, you may have encountered the claim that the Israeli spy agency Mossad warned 4,000 Jews who worked in the World Trade Centre to stay home on 11 September 2001; or that a handful of Jewish lobbyists control US foreign policy; or the world is run by the Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG)." https://newint.org/features/2004/10/01/conspiracism

"Postwar neo-Nazi conspiracy theories shifted to Israel as well, touting the United States as the “Zionist Occupation Government.” https://www.nydailynews.com/2022/01/20/why-conspiracy-theorists-so-often-aim-their-ire-at-jews/

"With the racist and anti-Semitic theology of Christian Identity as their justification, they blame the Jewish Antichrist, or the Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG), which rules in Washington, taking its orders from internationalist Jews in Israel, the United Nations, and the Fortune 500." Brasher, Brenda (2001), Encyclopedia of Fundamentalism, Routledge, p. 305

Simply put, people who believe in ZOG are also anti-Zionist in the classical sense of opposing the state of Israel. This isn't equating all anti-Zionists with the neo-nazi conspiracy theorists of ZOG, but rather recognizing that proponents of ZOG are anti-Zionist as well, for different reasons than anti-Zionists of communist, Islamist, Arab Nationalist, or left-wing Jewish origin. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 02:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add some anti semitic pro Palestinian Activists to the groups spreading this theory as they have been a new proponent in spreading this theory 49.190.161.247 (talk) 14:39, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 16:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]