Talk:Laertes (father of Odysseus)

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On 31 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Laertes (mythology). The result of the discussion was Moved to Laertes (father of Odysseus).

Untitled

In the Samuel Butler translation, Laertes expresses his regret at NOT helping Odysseus kill the suitors:

Laertes answered, "Would, by Father Jove, Minerva, and Apollo, that I were the man I was when I ruled among the Cephallenians, and took Nericum, that strong fortress on the foreland. If I were still what I then was and had been in our house yesterday with my armour on, I should have been able to stand by you and help you against the suitors. I should have killed a great many of them, and you would have rejoiced to see it." [1]

So, my question is: did he or did he not participate in Odysseus's battle with the suitors? --Ed Poor—Preceding undated comment added at 18:24, 25 September 2002 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly he didn't in Homer, but did in Ovid or someone else. That's my best guess, I'll try and find some more information about it. TokerBoy—Preceding unsigned comment added by John Price (talk • contribs) 18:28, 25 September 2002 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this entry should have a second part, mentioning that an unrelated Laertes is a character in Hamlet. --Tahnan, passing through—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.43.104 (talk) 07:53, 18 October 2002 (UTC)[reply]

According to Homer he doesn't kill the suitors butis involved in the battle with the suitors angry relatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Furius (talk • contribs) 11:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Laertes is a smart man because he is a Canadian.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.150.198.66 (talk) 14:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Laërtes's title was King of the Cephallenians," the link "Cephallenians" goes to the page for "Acephali," which has nothing to do with Cephalus, for whom the "Cephallenians" were probably named. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.20.74.113 (talk) 04:34, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Transliteration

"In Robert Fitzgerald's transliteration of the Odyssey" Why would anybody want a transliterated Greek text? Anybody who can read Greek must certainly be familiar with the Greek alphabet. Reading a Greek text rendered in Roman letters makes no sense. D021317c 10:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. According to Fitzgerald's page, he made translations of the classics, not transliterations, and I have changed it accordingly. Jeremy.Sanders 17:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

King Allwoes

King Allwoes is not Laertes. "... deem(ing) it best to be crafty with him,"(Samuel Butler) Odysseus hides his true identity from Laertes. Odysseus, in this lie, calls himself Eperitus, son of King Apheidas(Allwoes in Fitzgerald). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.173.0.16 (talk) 02:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling inconsistency

One of two possible fathers of Odysseus is mentioned as Laertes and Laërtes. Is there a reason for this inconsistency? What is the proper spelling? ICE77 (talk) 05:14, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It can be spelt both ways, the accent is optional. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.41.26 (talk) 13:09, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Laertes (father of Odysseus). Per consensus, with absence of a primary topic. – robertsky (talk) 08:28, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Laertes → Laertes (mythology)
Laertes (disambiguation) → Laertes

– No primary topic. Hamlet's Laertes gets almost twice the pageviews, and Google Scholar search results are pretty evenly mixed. Homer uses the name 50ish times depending on the translation, Shakespeare 105 times including stage directions. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 04:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The article on the Hamlet character is largely unreferenced, and it's not clear whether it passes GNG or should simply be merged to Characters in Hamlet. Besides that, the character is directly named after the ancient king. The clear inspiration suggests the king has more longterm significance, if it has been inspiring writers for hundreds of years. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:DPT: Being the original source of the name is also not determinative. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 17:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Inclined to agree with Zxcvbnm.★Trekker (talk) 11:59, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lean oppose. I generally prefer that figures from classical mythology be primary over the things named after them. There will be exceptions, but the father of Odysseus is just as important as the character in Hamlet, and the number of times the name occurs in Hamlet ("including stage directions") isn't particularly helpful in distinguishing them. I don't think that either page views or long-term significance get us anywhere in this case. P Aculeius (talk) 14:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support the place may be more important than the mythology and the mythology clearly isn't primary by usage though the Hamlet character's name comes from the mythology. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:10, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination and Crouch, Swale. There are four entries listed upon the Laertes (disambiguation) page, with little to no indication that the historical/mythological renown of Odysseus' father exceeds the combined notability of the remaining three entries. As an alternative option, would also support Laertes → Laertes (father of Odysseus) per main title headers for entries delineating characters from Greek mythology such as Tmolus (father of Tantalus), Thrasymedes (son of Nestor), Pterelaus (son of Taphius), Oxylus (son of Haemon), Pelopia (daughter of Thyestes), Stratonice (wife of Melaneus), Philomela (mother of Patroclus), Pandora (daughter of Deucalion), Hippodamia (wife of Pirithous) or Hippolochus (son of Bellerophon), to name but ten. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:05, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, pretty clear absence of a primary topic. I'm fine with Laertes (father of Odysseus). BD2412 T 23:42, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. The Hamlet character is just too notable for this relatively obscure mythological character to be primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Laertes (father of Odysseus) - nothing to add but that this is leaning support overall with what looks like a weak support for (father of Odysseus), so I wanted to help the closer choose between the two. Although I would personally prefer the more concise (mythology), consistency with other articles is more important unless we are to change the other titles as well. ASUKITE 16:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

confusion with Shakespeare character

There is a character named Laertes in the play Hamlet, and he does have his own article. I think someone should put the "not to be confused with X" text at the top of the article. I would do it but I don't know how Unrefined Gasoline (talk) 01:06, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]