Talk:Riverworld

Church of the Second Chance

To Rmhermen: Why did you remove the role of the Church in the spread of Esperanto? -- Error 03:58, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Esperanto spread in the books as the language of government and trade, not exclusively through the Church as the article stated. Rmhermen 17:19, Oct 13, 2003 (UTC)

No IIRC the Church played a major role in the spread of the language. Considering the obcurity of Esperanto among the resruectees it seems a little absurd that it would just become dominant "naturally"

I strongly agree with the view that the Cotsc was very responsible for the spread of Esperanto and believe that La Viro was even told to spread it. 82.13.113.81 19:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I noticed this error and was about to correct it but saw this discussion. The original text was correct, the language of Esperanto was selected by and intentionally spread by the Church as part of a plan by the Ethicals to provide a common language to all residents of the Riverworld. This is confirmed by Loga (aka The Mysterious Stranger or X) in The Magic Labyrinth when he is explaining to Burton why the Ethicals did not announce what was going on directly to everyone on the first day of their resurrection:

"Believe me, our way is the best, even if it has its disadvantages and limits. We know because of what our predecessors told us about their projects in resurrecting other sentients. Besides, when Earthpeople were all raised on that day, there were one hundred thousand languages spoken by them. We would not have been understood by many. All the people could not hear the message until the Church of the Second Chance had spread a common language, Esperanto, throughout the Riverworld."

The author further confirms it in the Afterword of the Gods of Riverworld

The missionaries of the Church also teach their disciples to speak Esperanto. A language that everybody can understand is necessary because of the mixture of peoples from many times and places.

Steevithak (talk) 23:01, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Writers of the Riverworld

It says in the article that other writers used the Riverworld. Who are they, and what did they write? -Litefantastic 12:35, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

There were two anthologies of Riverworld stories published. The only author I can recall offhand is Harry Turtledove, who wrote about A Byzantine Emperor and Richard Daley joining forces to conquer some African Muslims who were between their two kingdoms. Other stories featured Davey Crocket teaming up with Socrates, Shakespeare escaping from Al Capone, Stephen Crane and some professional ball players on tour, and Elvis as a literal king. Like most anthologies some of the stories were quite good, some were so so and some were just rubbish. (unsigned)

Can we get a listing of the stories in the anthologies & the authors? CFLeon (talk) 01:10, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Peter Jairus Frigate

At first, Frigate certainly *seems* to be a thinly-veiled author cameo. However, without wanting to give too many spoilers, later in the series it becomes apparent that the Frigate we met in 'To Your Scattered Bodies Go' is definitely *not* just a renamed Philip Jose Farmer. Hence "bears a striking resemblance" rather than "is a thinly-veiled representation of".

Several of Farmer's stories include a character with the intials PJF, sometimes as a bit character, sometimes a major one. It's one of his quirks. CFLeon 05:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Bring Back Riverworld!

Someone should start a petition or something to get Sci Fi channel to bring back Riverworld. I can't believe they stopped it after the first episode.--Ewok Slayer 05:34, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't it a TV movie ?, not even a Pilot --62.220.161.10 10:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I also thought it was a made for TV movie but the DVD case doesn't reveal much. It tells me only that Sci-Fi definitly produced it. 82.13.113.81 19:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Storyline

This following section is just plain wrong.

"There are no people from a time later than the early 21st century, ostensibly because an accident in space wiped out the human race at that time."

There are no humans on this verion of the Riverworld that lived after 1983. Anyone claiming to be from beyond this period is an agent for the ethicals. The story about the 'accident' which wipes out humanity is just that, a story. Later on in the series they explain that this verion of the Riverworld is meant to run for a couple more hundred years and then cleared. After which all of humanity born after 1983 would be loaded for the same period of time.

This series is so complicated, having read *all* books in the series is a must. Seems to me that whoever wrote the storyline has not done so. (unsigned)

But the 1983 cut-off is not established until the later books. Reading them as a unit, I get the feeling that it was an afterthought that PJF came up with AFTER writing To Your Scattered Bodies Go. CFLeon 05:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

No, no, no. I am sure that Burton figures out the 1983 rule during To Your Scattered Bodies Go, thus his interrogation of the Ethical Agent in the same book. 82.13.113.81 19:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't think he does. I just finished reading To Your Scattered Bodies Go and there was no mention of a 1983 rule. Then again, maybe I should read the next 4. Oh well, I have The Fabulous Riverboat in my lap right now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.221.29 (talk) 08:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I haven't read the RW books recently, but I do have the licensed GURPS Riverworld role-playing manual which described the setting in detail. Published in 1989, it states 1983 as the definitive cut-off year. In a sidebar on page 32, if you wish to check and have the book handy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.67.53 (talk) 03:00, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The 1983 cutoff date is not mentioned until The Dark Design. When this book begins, it is about 30 years since Resurrection, and Burton has been friends with Monat and "Frigate" all this time. Two independent storylines - Burton, Jill Gulbirra - show characters piecing together that the "alien invasion" story told by a number of Riverworlders is BS, a cover story for Ethical agents. Several characters previously written as friends of the protagonists - Milton Firebrass, Lev Ruach - are posthumously shown to be enemy agents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.88.133.237 (talk) 06:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Story problem

I haven't read the books, but I have a problem with a bit of it as the plot is currently explained in the article as it currently stands. It says the Ethicals originally brought Wathan technology to Earthm installing a generator and a collector. "The reason for this change of policy was that humans were, to them, extraordinary." - How could they know in advance that humans would be extraordinary ? Did they experience this or travel back in time? Or what? If all places got both a generator and a collector then it doesn't warrant the phrase "this change of policy"? Someone who has read it please clarify :) --IceHunter (talk) 02:53, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Presumably the Ethicals visited Earth when humans were just about to gain sapience (indeed, their generators brought it on) and thought the apes had potential. Similar to the exact point in time in the motion picture "2001: A Space Odyssey" when the monolith appears. 2.31.162.26 (talk) 14:12, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Scholarly studies

What is a Masters memoir? Should that not simply read "Masters thesis"? Willsied8 (talk) 01:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Inspiration

From https://kinja.com/Aiwaz418
"[F]or fans of Farmer’s books, I recommend John Kendrick Bangs’ 1895 novel, A House-Boat On The Styx, to which Farmer owes a great deal." Darci (talk) 00:50, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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Super Earth

I don't recall anything from the stories suggesting that Riverworld was any more massive that Earth, which is the definition of "super-earth". according to the popup. Riverwold could be classified as "extrasolar", but not as a "super-earth".

The term "super-Earth" came into use a decade or so AFTER Farmer wrote the initial stories, so he shouldn't be expected to have used it.CFLeon (talk)!

From the "Overview": " From source to mouth, the river is 20 million miles long (Books I, II, & III state the river is 10 million miles long)."

If the books in the series state that the river is 10 million miles long, then it would seem that it is 10 million miles long. What is that basis for claiming that it is "20 million" miles long? Seems like a citation is needed here. (unsigned)

It may just be a typogoof.

I tried making a map of the Riverworld years ago. The only way I could have it work out is have the river flow back and forth South in one hemisphere (call it the Down Hemisphere) and North in the other (call it the Up Hemisphere). This situation raises other complications, however- Farmer implies in one early book that the river flows in a spiral across the surface of the planet. CFLeon (talk) 22:03, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Significantly edited sentence

In the section on Peter Jairus Frigate, the opening sentence originally read:

Peter Jairus Frigate is a fictionalized version of the science fiction author Philip José Farmer, which appeared in his Riverworld series of novels.

Since "the science fiction author" and everything after Farmer's name sees to be unnecessary to me, I removed those parts of the sentence so it would read:

Peter Jairus Frigate is a fictionalized version of Philip José Farmer.

Please let me know if this was a wrong edit.--Thylacine24 (talk) 01:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Removed "Bangsian fantasy" from categories

The "Riverworld" category page is itself a subcategory of Category:Bangsian fantasy, so I removed it from the categories here. I did this amid uncertainty about using two categories where one is a subcategory of the other, and had conflicting answers to questions about it in the Manual of Style and on the help desk, such as here and here.--Thylacine24 (talk) 23:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)