Talk:Zhytomyr Oblast

Location map

Gzornenplatz, please let us try out the new maps for a bit? Steschke has put a lot of work into them.

How is the old one clearer? Is it just the lower contrast that bothers you? Maybe it just needs to be larger?

The new ones have the advantage of additional context: you can see which oblasts border what countries, and where the Dnieper flows. They also visually work with the other political maps Steschke has done (e.g., at Subdivisions of Ukraine).

For comparison, old & new map images, at 125px width.

File:UkraineZhytomyr.png

PS: please have a look at WikiProject Ukrainian subdivisions, and comment on some of the other work we're doing. Cheers.

—Michael Z. 07:54, 2004 Nov 1 (UTC)

The old ones followed a standard that has been used in the locator maps for the subdivisions of many countries. Is Steschke going to change them all? I don't think the country borders and rivers are worth it. And I don't like this shading style in general. Shading in maps is normally used to show elevations. The way it's used here is useless eye candy at best and misleading at worst. Gzornenplatz 08:01, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

I don't think the old colour scheme for the Ukrainian location maps is strictly a standard. A convention is being developed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps, but there's no requirement for WP maps to conform to any particular style (and many don't).

The new maps contain more information than the old, and I don't really think anyone will confuse them with elevation maps. I'm sorry that the style doesn't appeal to you.

—Michael Z. 08:19, 2004 Nov 1 (UTC)

I didn't say there's a "requirement" to follow the standard, but it is a standard nonetheless. Look at some other country subdivision maps, almost all are in the same style. So there should be a good reason to use a different style, and I don't think this is one. Those are locator maps, there isn't supposed to be "more information" than showing the location of the subdivisions within the country. The river is rather arbitrary (why not other rivers, or whatever other details you could add), it only confuses the oblast boundaries. Gzornenplatz 08:33, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

I must say that the new maps of Ukraine are really great. To me they look much nicer than those simplistic default ones, used by everyone around just because there are no better maps available. I wish I could make such a great maps for Poland too.

Also, I don't understand the objections of Gzornenplatz. Here he argues that the "default ones" are good. On recent Images for Deletion query he argued that the "default ones" are bad. What's the problem? [[User:Halibutt|Halibu tt]] 14:35, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

Feb 19 edits

Copyedit & linkfixing. Removed the following passage:

Żytomierzczyna in Polish

because this article deals with the administrative unit of independent Ukraine and former USSR. So it's irrelevant to the Polish history (unlike Polissya for example). Moreover, the province has never been officially named in Polish. Besides, that passage is linguistically incorrect: to the best of my humble Pols'ka knowledge, Żytomierzczyna is a colloquial name for the area, not for the formal subnational unit like oblast'. In case of need, you Poles link the page of the respective voivodship here. Best wishes, AlexPU

Ukrainian Oblast's Infobox and raion names

cross-posted from user talk:Irpen

I think we need the new inobox for Ukrainian Oblasts. I inserted flag and CoA of Zhytomyr Oblast, but without an infobox it seems...

If you want - create this infobox, please- then I will try to find more flags and CoAs.

Secundo: Could you check English names for the raions in Zhytomyr Oblast. Cheers! Vuvar1 18:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi! As for the names of raions, perhaps we should just follow the name of the oblasts convention and list names in noun forms of the capital, like "Бердичівський район" would be Berdychiv Raion rather than Berdychivskyi raion, etc. Let's wait a little for opinions.

As for the infobox, I think your idea of updating to make room for the CoA and flag is a great one. I just have no experience with this whatsoever and almost don't know what an infobox is. But we have a much greater expert :) among the authors of UA related articles. I will ask him to take a look. Cheers, -Irpen 03:08, Jun 27, 2005 (UTC)

That's starting to be quite a lot of stuff to put in the infobox. Perhaps the flag and arms should be quite small, side-by-side. Above or below the maps? —Michael Z. 2005-06-28 07:33 Z

I am not sure whether to place flags and CoAs above or below. Whatever others find aesthetically pleasing. Is it a bad idea to name raions by noun forms of the capital? We use this convention for oblasts name already. That would then be Korosten Raion, Berdychiv Raion, etc. -Irpen June 28, 2005 14:23 (UTC)

I think you're right about the naming. Each raion article would have the Ukrainian name and transliteration, although we could also include that here, or in a separate List of raions of Ukraine (List of Ukrainian raions?). I've updated the list, with full transliterations here, for now.

Regarding the infobox, the one in Odessa Oblast is already set up with a coat of arms. Adding the flag would make it even taller. It's not terrible, but I'd rather present these in a more compact way. I have a very busy week, so I probably won't be able to experiment with this until the weekend. —Michael Z. 2005-06-28 15:17 Z

I corrected the raion names to the names of the capitals. I had to go to ukrainian wiki since I haven't heard of many of these small towns. I think, it is correct now, but if I made a mistake, someone will correct it. As for the infoboxes, I leave it up to others. Still, we could keep adding CoA's to various UA locations, and once this gets standartized, the layout can be modified. There is certainly no question, I hope, that having flags and CoA's in the articles is a good idea. List of raions in Ukraine would largely duplicate the current article List of cities in Ukraine. Maybe we could merge these ideas and have the locations listed by Oblast, Raion in one article? Cheers, -Irpen June 28, 2005 19:23 (UTC)

Woops; thanks for fixing my mangling of the raion names. See what happens when I edit without actually reading? —Michael Z. 2005-06-29 00:18 Z

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