Talk:Charing Cross

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Charing Cross Explained

'Charing Cross' denotes a road junction location like The Angel, Islington. Charing Cross Station was named after the junction location not vice-versa. This road junction is still marked on the map as 'Charing Cross', even though it is no longer a postal address. Colin4C (talk) 11:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, but the Angel is the name of a former Inn, and Charing Cross is the former cross in the village of Charing. By extension these names have become associated with road junctions after the original has passed into history. Kbthompson (talk) 11:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's Victorian replacement is named 'Charing Cross' in EH's national register of monuments - see link to IoE under refs. It's about 50 m to the east of the original site - agreed? Kbthompson (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it is 50m east of the original, but EH or no EH, the Victorian replacement is definately not Charing Cross (see for example Pevsner's guide to the buildings of London)..Seems that, since I left their employ, EH cannot get the staff...evidentally employing graduates of Luton polytechnic to write their reports these days...the old school pipe smoking archaeologists may have been shameless layabouts, but at least they had a bit of general education on British history and culture. Colin4C (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are a number of reasons why I think you unnecessarily pedantic on this point. It may be a pastiche, but if enough people call it a dog ...

I was also thinking of the datum point thing. It's not authoritatively defined. First it was adopted as a significant landmark close to Scotland Yard where the beasts who administered the legal niceties were quartered. Second, the AA was founded 1902?, and their first offices were in Fleet Street; moving to Leicester Sq 3 years later. From 1909 they began publishing gazetteers and maps. They also put up many of the first roadsigns and distances. I think it's their adoption of it as a datum that led to the convention. Proving it - well that's another matter. Kbthompson (talk) 10:53, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"even though it is no longer a postal address". Yes it is - see Royalmail.com. eg:

The Royal Bank of Scotland plc

49 Charing Cross

LONDON

SW1A 2DX 82.46.163.160 (talk) 07:45, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Charing Cross Explained II

The opening sentence reads: "Charing Cross is located at the junction of the Strand, Whitehall and Cockspur Street in Central London, England." However, it doesn't say what Charing Cross actually is. Is it a road? Is it a station? Is it a cross? What is it? Nzseries1 (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's a somewhat philosophical question...It's not the station, which is at a different location and was named after the pre-existing Charing Cross...it's not the cross, which is no longer extant and has been replaced by a statue of Charles I on the same location...its not the road, which has been renamed...its not the village of Charing, which has long been submerged within the urban sprawl of London...Possibly best to think of it as the junction of the three roads mentioned above, but not as actually having any physical dimensions in real space...Colin4C (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I figured it wouldn't be that easy - thanks for letting me know! Nzseries1 (talk) 15:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add that as Charing Cross railway station is not the same entity as Charing Cross, is differently located, and has its own wikipedia article, I have reduced the info on it in this article. Colin4C (talk) 21:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the cross—the structure—it is mentioned that it was destroyed prior to 1675, but not how that happened. (Same thing in the Eleanor cross article.) I find it an important omission. Now, I don't have any specific sources in mind, but I believe the cross was pulled down by parliamentarians in the Civil War, viewed as a royal symbol, and that this was actually the fate of several of the crosses. The time-frame fits, as does the later replacement by a statue of none other than Charles I. Waltham, The Duke of 04:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You say the road has been renamed, but the Royal Bank of Scotland and Tesco Express (art least) have 'Charing Cross' as the thoroughfare in their postal addresses. 82.46.163.160 (talk) 08:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think you are right about that. Someone (a royalist I guess) wrote a satirical poem about the destruction of the cross by the roundheads. The cross was also the site of a gallows where some of the regicides were hung, drawn and quartered at the Resoration. I'll see if I can find some refs. Colin4C (talk) 19:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It should also be noted that the Charles statue was moved for a road widening scheme; it's about 5 m from where it originally stood. I read somewhere, the base was reconstructed by Pugin. It's a photo opportunity for someone. Kbthompson (talk) 18:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So we need a shot incorporating the Charles statue and a glamorous model and/or myself and Kb standing where the original was. Might be a book deal in this. "In Search of Charing Cross: Pretentious Psychogeographical Musings with a Message - with an introduction by Will Self" would be the obvious title. Cannot remember when the last book about Charing Cross came out, if indeed there ever was a book on the subject. Colin4C (talk) 19:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I saw a brilliantly facetious satire on the removal of the Cross; with lawyers wandering too and thro because they could not get their bearings. No, I think the introduction to our book should be by Iain Sinclair - I picture you standing in the middle of the road with a divining rod; amongst heavy traffic. I'll be by the plinth leering up at a pendulous model. Perhaps just a shot of the statue would suffice. We could also provide a map with tenuous leylines stretching across England from the monument - making interesting geometric and cabalistic symbols.

There is also a plan to move London Stone - do these people have no sense? Kbthompson (talk) 10:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

and finally in Brave New World even the name is taken away and it becomes Charing T....--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Charing Cross as postal address

I was told by my bank manager at (RBS) Drummonds, that their address of 49 Charing Cross (London SW1A 2DX) was uniquely on Charing Cross, not Charing Cross Road. The building is not next to Charing Cross station, it is on the south west side of Trafalgar Square, next to Admiralty Arch, and I suppose, therefore, between Whitehall and The Mall. The point is that at some point there must have been 1-48 Charing Cross, although it is difficult to see where they would have stood as presumably Whitehall has been an open thoroughfare since mediaeval times, but maybe the east end of it was called Charing Cross, and maybe it extended in the area now occupied by the south side of Trafalgar Square. This could be linked to the fact that the original Eleanor Cross site is now a good way 'down' Whitehall. Maybe some London historical expert could add to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.193.120 (talk) 12:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps sadly from your bank manager's POV, Royal Mail has also:

Tesco

1-4 Charing Cross

LONDON

SW1A 2DR 82.46.163.160 (talk) 07:49, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Distances don't add up

The article says: "The site of the cross has been occupied since 1675 by an equestrian statue of King Charles I", and later "1865, a replacement cross was commissioned from E. M. Barry by the South Eastern Railway as the centrepiece of the station forecourt; about 160 feet (49 m) east of the original site".

This implies that the monument outside the station is 49 m away from the statue of Charles I, but there is no way that can be true. It's more like a few hundred metres. I'm not sure which is wrong, the distance, or the assertion that the statue is on the original site. 86.151.118.165 (talk) 21:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[1] shows a plaque by the statue that reads "On the site now occupied by the statue of King Charles I was erected the original Queen Eleanor's cross a replica of which stands in front of Charing Cross station." One would think this plaque is correct, so maybe it's the distance that is wrong. OTOH, I've just noticed that 217.155.193.120 above says "the original Eleanor Cross site is now a good way 'down' Whitehall", which would make it even further away from the present one. Dunno. 86.176.211.219 (talk) 14:45, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now, the eleanor cross picture text says: "The Victorian replacement of the original Eleanor Cross 200 metres (200 yards) away"
Google Maps gives 240 metres [from the equestrian statue]. And metre is not equal to yard: 200 metres equals to around 219 yards, and 240 metres would be around 262 yards... 86.115.109.159 (talk) 16:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]