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Zhenrong Chen was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep.

Zhenrong Chen

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This page is a Vanity Page. While I'm certain Zhenrong Chen is a superb dancer, to allow a Wikipedia page for every performer at his level would be counter to Wikipedia's policies. The somewhat crude (though recommended) Google test for Mr. Chen produces 22 results. Mikhail Baryshnikov has over 100,000. Though lack of fame does not per se qualify a page as a vanity page, the list of ballet dancers featured on Wikipedia (Mikhail Baryshnikov, Erik Bruhn, Darcey Bussell, Fanny Cerito, Anton Dolin, Fanny Elssler, Suzanne Farrell, Margot Fonteyn, Lucile Grahn, Carlotta Grisi, Sylvie Guillem, Karen Kain, Pierina Legnani, Alicia Markova, Vaslav Nijinsky, Rudolf Nureyev, Anna Pavlova, Marie Taglioni) is undenialy exclusive. This exclusivity protects the "encyclopedia" aspect of Wikipedia. Were the thousands of ballet dancers (and opera singers and orchestral members, etc.) who perform at Mr. Chen's level to be featured by Wikipedia, the presence of the true geniuses would be lessened and Wikipedia's ability to share knowledge diluted. Burdettekevin 05:09, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Not sure I understand all of the above argument, but the page is an orphan and needs cleanup. Excellent engrish though. I'll vote keep if any reputable users agree with me. Alphax (talk) 05:31, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment: Investigating his notability, he's one of five principal dancers for the Shanghai Ballet company[1] and his Chinese name 陳真榮 + 芭蕾 (ballet) gets 60 google hits. He also seems to be the only Chinese ballet dancer wikipedia has. If a Shanghai Ballet Company article showed up, maybe he could be merged with that. Kappa 06:21, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment. To: Burdettekevin. You seem notable so I created a page about you. --JuntungWu 02:53, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Very cool. Thanks! The difficult part now is I'm going to have to add my page to VfD! Burdettekevin 22:06, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • "He appears to be one of the most well-known ballet dancers in China. Keep. [[User:Rhymeless|Rhymeless | (Methyl Remiss)]] 06:51, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Actually, reading Kappa's comment, I went searching, and it looks like he's up for VFD on the Chinese wikipedia as well. [[User:Rhymeless|Rhymeless | (Methyl Remiss)]]
      • Very weak keep at the moment; I agree with Jpgordon to a certain extent, but I wish somebody could tell me what his entry on zh says.... [[User:Rhymeless|Rhymeless | (Methyl Remiss)]] 07:06, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • What of the scores of "minor" actors with writeups throughout the site? Acting and ballet are both sections of the performance realm and as such do not not deserve equal respect, in principle? Who is to determine the quantifiable measure of "significance"? As to diluting a subject, remember that cream always rises to the top regardless of the volume of content added. netkinetic
  • Comment: My suggestion for removal comes from personal experience. I am an opera singer; I've been a principal bass at New York City Opera for a number of years, as well as on the roster at the Met. Google me and you'll get over 500 hits. And I KNOW I am not notable enough to be a Wikipedia entry. There's a line; I don't know where it is. I just know that I fall way short. And if I do, I have to think Chen does. Burdettekevin 07:16, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment: I was led to Chen's page because someone (presumably he or a friend) added his name to the famous dancers list on the Ballet page. He (or whoever) did the same thing on Unipedia [[2]]. I removed his (unalphabetized) name from the Wikipedia list [[3]]. Somehow, the addition of his name to that list seemed the quintessense of vanity. Burdettekevin 07:28, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. He is not very notable it seems. But this is not a paper encyclopedia and in my opinion the bar for notability should be low. I shuffled the info on the page around a bit, in an effort to make it look a bit more encyclopedic. I did not try to validate any of the claims made in the article. (And yes, if you feel like it Burdettekevin, I would welcome an article on you ;-) Sander123 12:30, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: Due to the way that the story is not written on living persons, the notability bar on living people should be set very high. Imagine how the article on Hitler's Diary would have looked, if we had been around then, or Howard Hughes's will, or the poet Ossian. I agree with the bass singer, above: being a lead dancer at a ballet is not sufficient, although I'm sure he's a very accomplished and gifted dancer. Geogre 14:17, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep to counter the bias toward trivial geek-centricity. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:26, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Wikipedia is not paper (and no, it's not toilet paper either). [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 17:51, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, insufficient evidence of notability. Wyss 19:14, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • i think it should be deleted because almost no one in the world will care, and it takes up space. if wikipedia was paper and had articles like this id use it as Toilet Paper 206.176.103.66 19:28, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) (anonymous vote)
  • I would be okay with a mention of him in at article about the Shanghai Ballet Company but, based on the evidence available, he does not yet meet my understanding of the recommended criteria for inclusion of biographies. Delete. (Comment: anon votes should be noted and are steeply discounted when the discussion period ends. However, striking them out while the discussion is still in progress just tends to start flamewars. Please let the process work.) Rossami (talk) 21:41, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I think Kevin should have an article too. Dr Zen 00:53, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I think he meets the criteria for inclusion of biographies. Barely. --JuntungWu 00:57, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 02:02, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, merge if you must. --fvw* 19:13, 2004 Dec 16 (UTC)
  • Keep. I concur with the proponent that there is no evidence Chen is a "true genius"; he also doesn't appear enormously famous. But quite a few (uncontested) Wikipedia biography subjects do not meet either criterion. He appears notable enough. Samaritan 02:33, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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